Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/09/2000 08:20 AM House STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                          March 9, 2000                                                                                         
                            8:20 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jeannette James, Chair                                                                                           
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Bill Hudson                                                                                                      
Representative Scott Ogan                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Harold Smalley                                                                                                   
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 292                                                                                                              
"An  Act  adopting  the  National  Crime  Prevention  and  Privacy                                                              
Compact;  making   criminal  justice   information  available   to                                                              
interested  persons   and  criminal  history   record  information                                                              
available  to the  public; making  certain conforming  amendments;                                                              
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 324                                                                                                              
"An  Act  requiring written  consent  by  the  person who  is  the                                                              
subject of the  information before releasing  personal information                                                              
contained  in motor  vehicle  records, to  comply  with 18  U.S.C.                                                              
2721; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 324 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 270                                                                                       
"An  Act  relating to  sexual  assault  and  sexual abuse  and  to                                                              
payment  for  certain  examinations  in cases  of  alleged  sexual                                                              
assault or sexual abuse."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSSHB 270(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 317                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating to  recruitment,  selection,  appointment,  and                                                              
promotion of state  employees and the duties of  the Department of                                                              
Administration concerning those and other related functions; and                                                                
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 317(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 299                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to rates charged  in a Pioneers' Home."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 292                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: DISCLOSURE OF CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/21/00      1954     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/21/00      1954     (H)  STA, JUD                                                                                            
 1/21/00      1955     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DPS)                                                                              
 1/21/00      1955     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 1/21/00      1955     (H)  REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                                                                           
 2/22/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
 2/22/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 2/29/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
 2/29/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 3/02/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
 3/02/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 3/07/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
 3/07/00               (H)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 3/07/00               (H)  MINUTE(STA)                                                                                         
 3/09/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 324                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PERSONAL INFO IN MOTOR VEH. RECORDS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/02/00      2060     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/02/00      2060     (H)  STA, JUD, FIN                                                                                       
 2/02/00      2060     (H)  FISCAL NOTE (ADM)                                                                                   
 2/02/00      2060     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 2/02/00      2060     (H)  REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                                                                           
 3/02/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
 3/02/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 3/07/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
 3/07/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 3/09/00               (H)  STA AT   8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SSHB 270                                                                                                                
SHORT TITLE: SEXUAL ASSAULT & SEXUAL ABUSE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/10/00      1890     (H)  PREFILE RELEASED 1/7/00                                                                             
 1/10/00      1890     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/10/00      1890     (H)  STA, HES, FIN                                                                                       
 1/21/00      1976     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): KERTTULA                                                                              
 2/16/00      2224     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): SMALLEY                                                                               
 2/18/00      2236     (H)  SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED                                                                       
 2/18/00      2237     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/18/00      2237     (H)  STA, HES, FIN                                                                                       
 2/18/00      2237     (H)  REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                                                                           
 3/07/00               (H)  STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                         
 3/07/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 317                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: STATE EMPLOYEE HIRE AND PROMOTION                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/24/00      1991     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/24/00      1991     (H)  MLV, STA, FIN                                                                                       
 1/24/00      1991     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (ADM/ALL DEPTS)                                                                    
 1/24/00      1991     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 2/29/00               (H)  MLV AT  4:30 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 2/29/00               (H)  Moved CSHB 317(MLV) Out of Committee                                                                
 2/29/00               (H)  MINUTE(MLV)                                                                                         
 3/03/00      2393     (H)  MLV RPT CS(MLV) NT 5DP                                                                              
 3/03/00      2394     (H)  DP: CROFT, PHILLIPS, JAMES, CISSNA,                                                                 
 3/03/00      2394     (H)  MURKOWSKI                                                                                           
 3/03/00      2394     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (ADM/ALL                                                                           
                            DEPTS)1/24/00                                                                                       
 3/03/00      2394     (H)  REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                                                                           
 3/07/00               (H)  STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                         
 3/07/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 3/09/00               (H)  STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL:  HB 299                                                                                                                 
SHORT TITLE: PIONEERS HOME RATES                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/21/00      1961     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 1/21/00      1962     (H)  STA, HES, FIN                                                                                       
 1/21/00      1962     (H)  REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                                                                           
 3/07/00               (H)  STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                         
 3/07/00               (H)  Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                             
 3/09/00               (H)  STA AT  8:00 AM CAPITOL 102                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MARY MARSHBURN, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Motor Vehicles                                                                                                      
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
3300B Fairbanks Street                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement for HB 324.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 400                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement for HB 270.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                  
Department of Public Safety                                                                                                     
PO Box 111200                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 270.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
LAUREE HUGONIN, Director                                                                                                        
Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                                                                          
130 Seward Street, Room 209                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided agency's position and answered                                                                    
questions regarding HB 270.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TRISHA GENTLE, Executive Director                                                                                               
Council on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault                                                                                   
PO Box 111200                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 270.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DAVE STEWART, Personnel Manager                                                                                                 
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
PO Box 110201                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99801-0201                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement for HB 270.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALISON ELGEE, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                               
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
PO Box 110200                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0200                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided department's position and answered                                                                
questions regarding HB 299.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MAREL HAKALA                                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 299.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
IRENE PAYTON                                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 299.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-19, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JEANNETTE JAMES  called the  House  State Affairs  Standing                                                              
Committee meeting  to order at 8:20  a.m.  Members present  at the                                                              
call  to order  were  Representatives  James, Green,  Hudson,  and                                                              
Ogan.   Representatives  Smalley  and  Whitaker  were excused  and                                                              
Representative Kerttula was ill.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 292-DISCLOSURE OF CRIMINAL HISTORY RECORDS                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0030                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  announced the first  order of business is  HOUSE BILL                                                              
NO.  292, "An  Act  adopting  the  National Crime  Prevention  and                                                              
Privacy Compact; making criminal  justice information available to                                                              
interested  persons   and  criminal  history   record  information                                                              
available  to the  public; making  certain conforming  amendments;                                                              
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES commented  that  the  committee had  finished  public                                                              
hearing and discussion  on HB 292 during the committee  meeting of                                                              
March  7, 2000.   She  asked the  members  if there  was any  more                                                              
discussion on HB 292 before moving it out of committee.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0070                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN said  he objected  to  moving HB  292 out  of                                                              
committee.    He noted  he  had  articulated  his reasons  in  the                                                              
meeting of  March 7,  2000 and believes  there are some  potential                                                              
constitutional  problems regarding  the  possibility of  violating                                                              
people's right to privacy.  He explained  that the biggest problem                                                              
he has  with HB 292 is  that a person  is supposed to  be presumed                                                              
innocent until proven  guilty but according to HB  292 if a person                                                              
has been  arrested, detained,  indicted, or  has any other  formal                                                              
charge  against  him/her, including  acquittal,  this  information                                                              
will be  made available for  civil uses which includes  collection                                                              
agencies.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0271                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES  stated that  she  would put  HB  292  off until  the                                                              
committee has a different quorum.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 324 - PERSONAL INFO IN MOTOR VEH. RECORDS                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  announced the  next order of  business is  HOUSE BILL                                                              
NO. 324,  "An Act requiring written  consent by the person  who is                                                              
the  subject   of  the   information  before  releasing   personal                                                              
information contained in motor vehicle  records, to comply with 18                                                              
U.S.C. 2721; and providing for an effective date."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARY MARSHBURN,  Director, Division of Motor  Vehicles, Department                                                              
of Administration,  testified via  teleconference from  Anchorage.                                                              
She  said the  purpose  of  HB 324  is  to  bring state  law  into                                                              
compliance  with  recently passed  federal  legislation  regarding                                                              
confidentiality of  vehicle records.   She noted that HB  324 does                                                              
apply  only to  vehicle records  and  does not  apply to  driver's                                                              
license  or  driver  information  which  is  already  private  and                                                              
confidential  covered under  a separate  statute.   She  explained                                                              
that the original  federal law after which the  Alaska statute was                                                              
modeled allowed  information from vehicle records  to be disclosed                                                              
for  eleven  permitted  uses,  ten  of  which  uses  were  vehicle                                                              
centered because they involved uses  by law enforcement, the court                                                              
system, government agencies in hearings,  and uses like that.  The                                                              
eleventh  use,   she  added,  permitted  the  information   to  be                                                              
disclosed for mass marketing for  bulk surveys if the owner of the                                                              
vehicle had not prohibited the release of that information.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN commented  that  the  new federal  law  and HB  324                                                              
retains    allowable  uses  by  government   agencies  in  various                                                              
proceedings  for  law enforcement  but  the  new federal  law  did                                                              
change relating  to mass marketing.   She mentioned that  under HB
324  information  for the  purpose  of  mass marketing  cannot  be                                                              
disclosed unless  the owner  has given  specific permission.   She                                                              
informed  the committee  that  federal legislation  mandates  that                                                              
Alaska be in compliance with the  new law by June 1,2000 or suffer                                                              
daily sanctions until the state is in compliance.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0500                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES stated  that for reasons of illustration,  assume that                                                              
someone is parked  on her property and the only  recourse that she                                                              
has  is  to call  the  license  plate  number  in to  the  police.                                                              
However, she noted that where she  lives, the few police available                                                              
are very busy with  more important calls and do not  have time for                                                              
nuisance  calls.   She  inquired  as to  how  she is  supposed  to                                                              
address her rights in view of HB 324.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN replied  that statutes apply if a  vehicle is parked                                                              
on  personal property.    She indicated  that  Chair James'  first                                                              
recourse  is correct  in calling  the  police and  as Chair  James                                                              
suspected,   HB  324  does   not  allow   divulgence  of   vehicle                                                              
information  except to  a government  agency  for law  enforcement                                                              
purposes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES explained that she owns  a small motel and in the past                                                              
when cars were left parked at her  motel she could request vehicle                                                              
[owner]  information in  order to  contact the  owner and get  the                                                              
vehicle removed but now under HB  324 she will not be able to make                                                              
that inquiry.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0769                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON  commented that  HB 324 sounds like  it will                                                              
eliminate junk mail.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0805                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN indicated  that  HB 324  seems  to be  moving                                                              
along positive lines.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  made  a  motion  to move  HB  324  out  of                                                              
committee  with  individual recommendations, attached  zero fiscal                                                              
note and  unanimous  consent.  There  being no  objection,  HB 324                                                              
moved from the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SSHB 270-SEXUAL ASSAULT & SEXUAL ABUSE                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0873                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES  announced the  next  order  of business  is  SPONSOR                                                              
SUBSTITUTE  FOR HOUSE  BILL NO. 270,  "An Act  relating to  sexual                                                              
assault and sexual  abuse and to payment for  certain examinations                                                              
in cases of alleged sexual assault or sexual abuse."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ERIC CROFT, Alaska  State Legislature,  said there                                                              
is  a proposed  CS  that  makes minor  changes  and  it should  be                                                              
adopted for discussion.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0903                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON  made a motion to adopt the  proposed CS for                                                              
SSHB  270,  version  1-LS1108\M,  Luckhaupt, 2/25/00,  as  a  work                                                              
draft.   There being  no objection, proposed  CSHB 270  was before                                                              
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT explained  that the  issue that brought  the                                                              
proposed  CS to  his attention  is forensic  examinations after  a                                                              
sexual assault.   He recognized  that sexual assault  examinations                                                              
are  a  delicate  and  troubling  issue  so it  is  all  the  more                                                              
important  that the  committee consider    it.   He observed  that                                                              
someone  who  has   been  sexually  assaulted  has   already  been                                                              
victimized once and the exam that  is necessary to gather evidence                                                              
about the  crime is,  in some  ways, a  second victimization.   He                                                              
reiterated   that   the   forensic    exam   is   unpleasant   and                                                              
uncomfortable.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT said  that  he had  heard  of victims  being                                                              
asked to pay for the forensic exam  with his/her health insurance.                                                              
He  noted that  it is  not standard  police  practice [to  request                                                              
payment for forensic exams] and the  committee will hear testimony                                                              
from  police agencies  to  that effect.    He  explained that  the                                                              
request  to  pay  is  only  for   isolated  incidents  but  it  is                                                              
particularly troubling  because it  seems to indicate  third level                                                              
victimization.     He  commented  that  if  someone's   house  was                                                              
burglarized and the  police came to investigate  the crime, dusted                                                              
for  fingerprints, and  took pictures,  the homeowner's  insurance                                                              
would  not be  billed.   Therefore,  he added,  charging a  sexual                                                              
assault victim for a forensic exam does not seem ethical.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT mentioned  that the  proposed CS makes  very                                                              
small   changes,  for   example,   it  defines   the  crime   more                                                              
specifically.   He  indicated  that  the reason  there  is both  a                                                              
sponsor substitute and  a proposed CS to HB 270 is  because it was                                                              
difficult to  write the legislation  even though the  sponsor knew                                                              
what he wanted  to accomplish.  He informed the  committee that in                                                              
the first draft the sponsor had written  "a law enforcement agency                                                              
shall  pay for  the   [forensic exam]"  and that  applied to  both                                                              
adult  and  juvenile  sexual  assault.   He  emphasized  that  the                                                              
writing  became   complicated  because  there  are   various  ways                                                              
agencies  pay  for  sexual  exams  and for  children  there  is  a                                                              
compassionate  model,  Alaska  Cares, that  uses  Medicaid  money.                                                              
Therefore, he  acknowledged, when  the sponsor tried  the approach                                                              
that  told who  would  pay, some  of  these paying  programs  were                                                              
precluded.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CROFT  remarked   that   juvenile  victims   were                                                              
problematical  because from  whom did agencies  ask permission  to                                                              
conduct a forensic  exam.  He reminded the committee  that parents                                                              
must give  permission for  a juvenile to  be examined  and parents                                                              
sometimes are  the prime suspect  in juvenile sexual assault.   He                                                              
added  that parents  can stop  a sexual  exam.   He observed  that                                                              
writing HB 270 just became so difficult  in the juvenile area that                                                              
the  sponsor left  out the  juvenile section  and concentrated  on                                                              
what the sponsor knew he could write correctly.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT said  that he  is a member  of the  Standing                                                              
Together  Against Rape  (STAR) Board  and that  is where he  heard                                                              
about some  of these issues.  He  noted that there are  many small                                                              
things  that people  can do  for  victims of  sexual assault,  for                                                              
example, providing clothes for a  victim to use after the forensic                                                              
exam.  He  explained that when a  victim goes to the  hospital the                                                              
victim's  clothes  are seized  as  evidence.   He  commented  that                                                              
providing  clothing for  victims  is a  small  step but  necessary                                                              
because otherwise the  victim has to go home in a  taxi dressed in                                                              
a hospital  gown or borrow someone  else's clothes.   He mentioned                                                              
that he had tried to bring before  the committee concrete examples                                                              
of what  victims go  through and  how they can  be helped  and the                                                              
reason there  are no direct witnesses  is because it  is difficult                                                              
to talk about the  issue.  He indicated that the  proposed CS asks                                                              
all police agencies to conform to no charge for forensic exams.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1393                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES  remarked  that after  hearing  what  sexual  assault                                                              
victims must go through she is not  sure she would report a sexual                                                              
assault because  it sounds so  awful and then  to have to  pay for                                                              
[the forensic exam is the outside  of enough].  She added that she                                                              
supports the proposed CS as a good move in the right direction.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN asked  if the  proposed CS  only applies  to                                                              
adults.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  answered in the affirmative.   He noted that                                                              
sexual  assault crimes  are generally  perpetrated against  adults                                                              
while  statutory  rape  is in  the  section  regarding  juveniles.                                                              
However, he  added, a juvenile sexual  assault can fall  under the                                                              
proposed CS guidelines  so the proposed CS had to  read both adult                                                              
victims and  crimes that  are non-statutory  rape.  He  reiterated                                                              
that it had become  very complicated to write a  bill that applied                                                              
to  juveniles  which  did  not result  in  more  harm  than  good,                                                              
therefore,  the proposed  CS only  applies to  adult victims.   He                                                              
said that one  of the problems in  writing a bill that  applied to                                                              
juveniles  was the  funding  mechanism that  is  used in  juvenile                                                              
cases  and the  other problem  was  who gives  permission for  the                                                              
juvenile to undergo a forensic exam.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1597                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  said  he  understands  from  Representative                                                              
Croft  that no  one  will be  falling through  the  cracks if  the                                                              
proposed CS is adopted.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DEL  SMITH,  Deputy Commissioner,  Department  of  Public  Safety,                                                              
testified in support of HB 270.   He noted that it has always been                                                              
the  position and  practice  of law  enforcement  to  pay for  the                                                              
collection  of   forensic  evidence  in  support   of  a  criminal                                                              
prosecution.   Under no circumstances,  he explained, has  he ever                                                              
thought it appropriate to bill a  victim or even by extension bill                                                              
the victim's  insurance company.   He commented  that he  does not                                                              
think that  a victim ought  to even see  a bill related  to sexual                                                              
assault  whether  it  is on  their  insurance  form  or not.    He                                                              
emphasized that a  police agency investigating a  crime should pay                                                              
because that  is the cost of  doing business in the  collection of                                                              
evidence no matter what the crime;  he does not know of any police                                                              
agency  that has  requested  payment.   The  Department of  Public                                                              
Safety paid  $48,659 in fiscal year  (FY) 1999 for  sexual assault                                                              
exams in the state, and so far in  FY 2000 the department has paid                                                              
$22,880.   He indicated  that paying for  exams had never  been an                                                              
issue in  the department  or in the  Anchorage Police  Department.                                                              
He reiterated  Representative  Croft's comment  that Alaska  Cares                                                              
handles  juvenile  sexual assault  exams,  and the  department  is                                                              
pleased  with  the  proposed  CS  because  it  leaves  payment  of                                                              
juvenile exams with Alaska Cares.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1750                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  asked if she understood  correctly that Mr.  Smith is                                                              
saying that the department has never billed a victim for exams.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH replied that the department  might have been billed, but                                                              
he has not found any police agency  that has ever billed a victim.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES  said she  understood  then  that some  other  entity                                                              
billed  victims  and that the department did not  think HB 270 was                                                              
necessary for the department.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH answered that he did not  think HB 270 was necessary for                                                              
the Department of Public Safety under  the current administration,                                                              
but he would feel more comfortable  if there were a law that would                                                              
make sure sexual exam billings were discontinued.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1789                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Smith if he  believes that requiring payment                                                              
for the exams  under the proposed  CS will be not create  a fiscal                                                              
note since  the Department  of Public Safety  has been  paying for                                                              
the exams already.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1793                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH  replied that the proposed  CS will not create  a fiscal                                                              
note and he thinks the proposed CS is a good bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said he had  heard Mr. Smith agree  with the                                                              
sponsor who had  presented a very convincing discussion  about why                                                              
the proposed  CS only  deals with adults  and that children  would                                                              
not fall through  the cracks.  He  asked what if "Maud"  claims to                                                              
have been  attacked, and  the evidence does  not trigger  a police                                                              
agency authorized  forensic exam.   Nevertheless, "Maud"  is still                                                              
convinced and she wants to prove  sexual assault so she goes ahead                                                              
and has forensic  evidence taken.   In that case, he  asked, would                                                              
the police agency  still pay for the exam or  would the individual                                                              
pay.  Further, he  added, the exam showed that "Maud"  was in fact                                                              
sexually assaulted.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH  answered that the agency  should pay in  all situations                                                              
where police are involved in the  investigation.  He noted that if                                                              
someone had a  sexual assault examination done  and then contacted                                                              
the police agency, it would be problematic in deciding who pays.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1873                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said that his  concern is not that  a person                                                              
would come in after getting a sexual  exam but that a person comes                                                              
to the police  first and claims to  have been violated.   He asked                                                              
if the  person is  automatically  examined then  or is a  decision                                                              
made whether an examination is warranted.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH expected  that if a person reports that  he/she has been                                                              
sexually assaulted,  unless there is  some reason to  believe that                                                              
he/she is making  up a claim, the  agency would agree to  check to                                                              
see if in fact  a sexual assault occurred since that  is the point                                                              
of the examination.  He believes  that, as a police administrator,                                                              
an examination needs to be done if there is an allegation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said that it  sounds like the  department is                                                              
effectively  paying for exams  now, as  Chair James had  observed.                                                              
Therefore,  the proposed  CS  re-establishes  that the  department                                                              
will do this.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1954                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH  replied that it is  basically a policy decision  and it                                                              
is current departmental practice.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON   remarked  that  the  proposed   CS  is  a                                                              
compassionate statement,  the cost is nothing, and  it speaks well                                                              
to any woman  who might be a victim.   He said the  proposed CS is                                                              
good legislation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN  inquired  as  to how  many  sexual  assaults                                                              
happen  in the  state  in a  year  and how  does  Alaska rank  per                                                              
capita.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH  answered that he  believed that Anchorage  received 300                                                              
reports a year  and he guesses that the number  statewide might be                                                              
600.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2058                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LAUREE HUGONIN, Director, Alaska  Network on Domestic Violence and                                                              
Sexual  Assault (ANDVSA),  said that  not everyone  knows what  is                                                              
involved in  a rape exam;  it is  not to be  taken lightly.   If a                                                              
person goes  into the  hospital for  a rape  exam right  after the                                                              
event has happened,  he/she still has the clothes  on in which the                                                              
rape took place.   She noted that  the clothes will be  taken from                                                              
the person and  kept for evidence.  She commented  that the person                                                              
stands in  the middle of  the examining room  on a white  piece of                                                              
paper  and  the  first  thing he/she  does  is  take  off  his/her                                                              
clothes.   The clothes are  laid on the  paper, and the  person is                                                              
brushed down because the person is  the crime scene.  The paper is                                                              
folded up,  set aside,  and becomes  the beginning  of a  stack of                                                              
papers for  evidence.   Next someone takes  a fingernail  file and                                                              
goes under each  of the person's fingernails to find  skin or hair                                                              
identifying the perpetrator.  Then  the person's hair is combed to                                                              
look for  evidence and  then the person  is examined  for bruises,                                                              
scratch marks or cuts.  A small comb  is taken out of an envelope,                                                              
and the  nurse combs the person's  pubic hair, again,  looking for                                                              
evidence.    She  observed  that  the  person's  body  orifice  is                                                              
examined for semen, and swabs are  taken to collect evidence.  She                                                              
stated that  the person  has to pluck  his/her own pubic  hairs in                                                              
order to  identify that  person's deoxyribonucleic  acid  (DNA) to                                                              
see  what is  different from  the  perpetrator's DNA.   A  regular                                                              
gynecological  exam is also  performed to  ascertain if  there are                                                              
tears or injuries inside of the person.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. HUGONIN  said that the sexual  exam can take anywhere  from 40                                                              
minutes to three  hours depending upon the person's  ability to be                                                              
able  to  endure  someone's  touch   and  examination  after  this                                                              
terrible  experience.   Sometimes,  she  added,  a person  is  not                                                              
admitted right away  to the examining room so the  person could be                                                              
in the waiting room  for three hours.  Hopefully  a person has the                                                              
company of a sexual assault intervention  program advocate to wait                                                              
with, but  that is not always  the case.  The  examination process                                                              
can last from one hour to eight hours.   It is hoped that when the                                                              
person is  able to  leave [the  hospital], the  person is  able to                                                              
walk out and go home.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HUGONIN  mentioned that  in  the  best of  circumstances  the                                                              
perpetrator  is caught, evidence  has been  collected and  used in                                                              
the prosecution  to  a good end,  and the  perpetrator is  jailed.                                                              
She  indicated  that as  the  victim  recovers from  this  heinous                                                              
crime,  at every  point where  the victim  has to  relive it,  the                                                              
victim does  relive it  because it  is not  something that  can be                                                              
forgotten.   She emphasized that  it is incomprehensible  that the                                                              
victim should have  to relive the crime upon receiving  a bill for                                                              
the assault  exam from  his/her insurance  company.   Just  as Mr.                                                              
Smith had testified,  billings have not come from  police agencies                                                              
but have  come from hospitals.   She hopes everything can  be done                                                              
to expedite  the proposed CS  because people must  understand that                                                              
it is not  acceptable for the  system to re-victimize  someone who                                                              
has gone through such a horrible experience.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HUGONIN reminded  the committee that last year  there were 325                                                              
reported  sexual assaults  in Anchorage  and 600  statewide.   She                                                              
observed  that in FY  99 her  program saw  1000 victims  of sexual                                                              
assault.  She stated that not everybody  reports and not everybody                                                              
gets exams done.   Per capita, she added, Alaska  ranks in the top                                                              
five for  sexual assaults  which  is 2.2 times  over the  national                                                              
average in the FBI Uniform Crime Report.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2408                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TRISHA GENTLE, Executive Director,  Council on Domestic Violence &                                                              
Sexual Assault,  testified in  support of HB  270.  She  said that                                                              
the  council believes  that the  proposed CS  needs to  be on  the                                                              
record so that when those rare situations  do arise, hospitals and                                                              
police officers have clear direction  not to charge sexual assault                                                              
victims  for the  exam.   She noted  that  in those  cases when  a                                                              
victim wants an exam but the police  do not think it is justified,                                                              
the victim can get a medical exam.   She explained that a forensic                                                              
exam is a very specific process;  in most parts of the state there                                                              
are  sexual assault  response teams  available  to cooperate  with                                                              
police.   She  explained that  sexual assault  response teams  are                                                              
made up of trained  nurses, examiners, and advocates  who are able                                                              
to meet  with a  victim.   She acknowledged  that there  are times                                                              
when  a victim  is not  sure he/she  wants  to go  through with  a                                                              
forensic exam, but he/she has health  concerns so instead of going                                                              
through a  forensic exam he/she  chooses to go  to a doctor  for a                                                              
medical exam.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he understood  that a medical exam choice                                                              
on the  part of  a victim is  a personal choice  and would  not be                                                              
affected by the proposed CS.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2568                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GENTLE agreed  with Representative Ogan's statement  and added                                                              
that  the  victim's exam  would  not  be  identified as  a  sexual                                                              
assault exam.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  commented he is  puzzled as to  why hospitals                                                              
are sending  bills to  victims when  the exam  has obviously  been                                                              
ordered by a local police department.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2591                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GENTLE answered  that  there have  been  changes in  hospital                                                              
protocol, and hospitals have chosen  to separate some of the costs                                                              
of  sexual   assault  exams.     Hospitals  are   adding  sexually                                                              
transmitted disease  (STD) and blood tests to the  cost of  sexual                                                              
assault exams, and the hospital makes  a choice to bill the victim                                                              
for those  charges.   Police departments  are  willing to pay  for                                                              
sexual assault exams,  but it is an internal decision  on the part                                                              
of the hospital  as to who pays the hospital bill.   She indicated                                                              
that there is an issue of insensitivity.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN asked  if Ms.  Gentle planned  to notify  the                                                              
public, hospitals,  and organizations  that HB 270 has  passed and                                                              
become law.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GENTLE  replied  that  her  organization  has  many  ways  to                                                              
implement public  notice and does  have a committee that  has been                                                              
working on sexual assault protocols.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2833                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  inquired as to  how many women refuse  to go                                                              
through the lengthy forensic process of proving sexual assault.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. GENTLE answered that nationally  about one in ten women choose                                                              
to report  a rape, and surveys  of general population  reveal that                                                              
one in four women  has been sexually abused in her  lifetime.  She                                                              
emphasized how important  the advocate's role is  in helping women                                                              
recover, and if  a victim will call an advocate  agency the victim                                                              
will get  support.   She remarked  that advocate  agencies  help a                                                              
victim see  what options are available  and what the  real picture                                                              
is.  She stated that the proposed  CS helps make sexual assault as                                                              
bearable as  possible.   She reiterated that  a low percentage  of                                                              
women report  a sexual assault, even  fewer go to trial,  and even                                                              
fewer perpetrators are convicted.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN  asked  if  it were  true  that  most  sexual                                                              
assault victims knew the perpetrator.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2960                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GENTLE  replied in the affirmative  but wanted to  define what                                                              
"known" means.   There is a  new term called "acquaintance  rape,"                                                              
and that could mean a best friend's  husband or real relationships                                                              
where the man  and woman know each other to  an apartment building                                                              
acquaintance.    She  noted  that  a  distinct  grooming  behavior                                                              
pattern is enacted to get into someone's  confidence, although she                                                              
acknowledged that intimate partner  violence is one of the biggest                                                              
crimes against women.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-19, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2967                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON  asked if the proposed CS also  applies to a                                                              
male victim.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. GENTLE replied absolutely.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  noted that  she had received  information from  an e-                                                              
mail that  listed ten  things to  protect against sexual  assault.                                                              
One  of the  protections  was to  be aware  of  what is  happening                                                              
around  one, for  example, not  walking  alone in  a parking  lot.                                                              
Another protection  is to keep the  car and house locked,  but the                                                              
best protection was to be aware.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GENTLE mentioned  that women's  shelters are  trying to  help                                                              
people  understand the  importance  of awareness.   She  indicated                                                              
that perpetrators are looking for vulnerable people.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2687                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  made a motion to move the proposed  CS for HB
270, version  1-LS1108\M, Luckhaupt, 2/25/00, from  committee with                                                              
individual  recommendations, the  attached zero  fiscal note,  and                                                              
ask  for unanimous  consent.   There  being  no objection,  CSSSHB
270(STA) moved from the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HB 317-STATE EMPLOYEE HIRE AND PROMOTION                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2674                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  announced the  next order of  business is  HOUSE BILL                                                              
NO. 317, "An Act relating to recruitment,  selection, appointment,                                                              
and promotion of state employees  and the duties of the Department                                                              
of Administration  concerning those  and other related  functions;                                                              
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2655                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAVE   STEWART,   Personnel  Manager,   Division   of   Personnel,                                                              
Department of Administration, presented  the sponsor statement for                                                              
HB  317.   He said  that HB  317 is  a clean-up  bill designed  to                                                              
refresh the Personnel Act with respect  to the state's recruitment                                                              
and selection  process.  He noted  that for a long time  the state                                                              
has used  a paper  and labor  intensive method  for accepting  and                                                              
reviewing applications  and preparing an eligible  list for hiring                                                              
managers in the state system.  He  explained that Workplace Alaska                                                              
is an electronic  system that allows job seekers  to file a single                                                              
electronic  resume  which  is attached  to  vacancy  announcements                                                              
filed by  hiring managers.   He commented  that the response  time                                                              
for both applicants  and managers is virtually  instantaneous.  He                                                              
mentioned that  HB 317  changes   references to "examination"  and                                                              
"registers" to "assessment" and "lists  of qualified individuals."                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2582                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN commented that  a bill  was passed  last year                                                              
dealing with the point system.  He  asked if HB 317 was cleanup to                                                              
conform with last year's bill.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES replied that HB 317 is  to streamline applications and                                                              
review of applicants for state jobs.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEWART  agreed.    He noted  that  Representative  Ogan  was                                                              
referring to a bill that established  a fixed point system for two                                                              
categories  of veterans.   He explained  that  HB 317 changed  the                                                              
fixed  point system  to  a percentage  of  total  assessment.   He                                                              
commented that  HB 317 maintains  the same relationship  but under                                                              
the former  examining  system a veteran  was awarded  five  or ten                                                              
points to the  total of the examination score.   He mentioned that                                                              
with the  percentage system there  is a variable  assessment based                                                              
on the vacancy and the criteria for that vacancy.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2501                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN asked  if the  new  percentage system  favors                                                              
veterans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2483                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEWART  replied  that  it  was a  "wash"  for  most  of  the                                                              
veterans.                                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  said that  the  state  used to  hire  from                                                              
registers.   He  asked if HB  317 conforms  to the  change to  the                                                              
electronic system; he presumes the  employee unions were satisfied                                                              
with that change.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART  answered in  the affirmative.   He noted that  all of                                                              
the collective bargaining units have  referenced Workplace Alaska.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked when did the department do that.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEWART  replied  that  the   last  of  the  bargaining  unit                                                              
agreements were amended during the latest negotiations.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  asked if  the bargaining  unit  agreements                                                              
were amended during that last round of negotiations.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2396                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART answered in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON  said then that HB 317 was  the first change                                                              
in the statutes to comport to the new system.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART replied in the affirmative.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON inquired if HB 317 was necessary.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART answered that it was  necessary in that the references                                                              
to  "register" preclude  the use  of  "hiring lists,"  and HB  317                                                              
allows the department to fully implement Workplace Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON  asked if there  was any language in  HB 317                                                              
that provides  any governor  with the power  to expand  the exempt                                                              
and  the partially  exempt employees  program without  legislative                                                              
approval.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2358                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART replied  that the exempt and partially  exempt service                                                              
is  only defined  in statute  and requires  legislative action  to                                                              
expand or change.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2353                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  said  he  had mentioned  this  because  in                                                              
reading  through HB  317, he  had  seen some  relationship to  the                                                              
exempt and partially exempt service.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART answered  that there is a reference in  the statute to                                                              
the  use of  eligible  lists as  part of  partial  exemption.   He                                                              
reiterated  that an  employee "can  be" appointed  to a  partially                                                              
exempt  position  without  going   through  a  register,  but  the                                                              
statutory  amendment changes  that  language so  that an  employee                                                              
"does  not  have  to  be"  appointed   from  a  list  of  eligible                                                              
candidates.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON   asked  if  exempt  or   partially  exempt                                                              
employees have rehire rights, or  do they flow into the new system                                                              
so that  they are  eligible to  take a  numerical position  within                                                              
that list in so far as the next opening is concerned.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEWART  replied  that  there  is  nothing  in  HB  317  that                                                              
advantages  that group.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2300                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON said he  understood then  that there  is no                                                              
change to exempt or partially exempt provisions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART answered in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES asked where the amendment came from.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART replied that the amendment  came from the hearing with                                                              
the House Special Committee on Military and Veteran's Affairs.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES said  she understood then that the  amendment was just                                                              
clean-up language  of the  amendment that was  put in  to Military                                                              
and Veterans' Affairs legislation.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  asked  if  there was  anything  in  current                                                              
statute  that precludes  the  department  from using  this  method                                                              
[Workplace Alaska].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART answered that reference  in statute to "registers" and                                                              
"eligible lists" would  limit the ability to enact  regulations to                                                              
fully  operate  Workplace Alaska  because  the department  is  not                                                              
establishing master  lists of Workplace Alaska.  He  said that the                                                              
department  is  shifting  from maintaining  eligible  lists  to  a                                                              
vacancy-based  recruitment   system  where  the   department  only                                                              
collects a list  of applicants when a vacancy occurs  and is going                                                              
to be filled.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2181                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEWART  noted that  use  of  the system  [Workplace  Alaska]                                                              
allows people who are actually interested  in the vacancy to apply                                                              
and be considered by the hiring manager.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  explained  that  the state  used  to  have                                                              
provisions  for people  who  qualified under  minority  hire.   He                                                              
asked if  minority hire  and underutilized  was maintained  in the                                                              
new Workplace Alaska program.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEWART  replied in the  affirmative and those  candidates who                                                              
are  considered underutilized  through specifics  provided by  the                                                              
office  of Equal  Employment  Opportunity are  still  marked as  a                                                              
requirement of consideration.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  commented  that  some people  were  on  12                                                              
registers when the state maintained  the register program and were                                                              
blocking other  people from  getting jobs.   Therefore,  he stated                                                              
that he believes  HB 317 is the  right way to go and  it surprises                                                              
him that it has  taken this long to change the  statutes to comply                                                              
with the new procedure.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2079                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  asked if HB 317  makes a major change  in how                                                              
people  are hired  as  far  as potential  abuses  on  the part  of                                                              
administration are concerned.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART  answered  that the fundamental  change  of HB  317 is                                                              
that rather  than being  tied to  a costly  time and paper  manual                                                              
process, the state  hiring process has now become  electronic.  He                                                              
said that  the competitive nature  of hiring and the  merit system                                                              
are maintained.  He noted that all  of the hires in the classified                                                              
system  are still  based  on an  applicant's  measure against  the                                                              
minimum   qualifications   that   are  established   through   the                                                              
classification system and the collective  bargaining unit process.                                                              
Number 1984                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said then that  there is nothing to fear in HB
317 as far as nepotism or "who you know" system.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART replied there was nothing to fear.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES acknowledged that does not mean that there are not                                                                  
employees who are political appointees.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1933                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON offered Amendment 1, 1-GH2050\G.1, Cramer,                                                                
3/4/00, which read:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, following line 12:                                                                                                 
          Insert new bill sections to read:                                                                                     
     "*Sec. 5.  AS 39.25.155(c) is amended to read:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          (c)    Applicants  shall be  placed  on  [ELIGIBLE]                                                                   
          lists for  the vocational classification  indicated                                                                   
          in  their applications  [SUBMITTED TO THE  DIVISION                                                                   
          OF  PERSONNEL  IN  THE   ORDER  OF  THEIR  RELATIVE                                                                   
          RANKING]   based   on   an  assessment   of   their                                                                   
          vocational  [TECHNICAL]  ability and  [,] place  of                                                               
          residence   [AND   WITHOUT   WRITTEN   EXAMINATION.                                                                 
          APTITUDE  OR OCCUPATIONAL TESTS  MAY BE GIVEN  IF A                                                                 
          POSITION REQUIRES A SPECIFIC ABILITY].                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     *Sec. 6.   AS 39.25.155(e) is amended to read:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          (e)    The director  of  personnel shall  embody  a                                                                   
          concept   combined   of    vocational   [TECHNICAL]                                                                 
          ability, place  of residence, local hire,  and area                                                                   
          unemployment  in the personnel rules  to accomplish                                                                   
          the intent of this section."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 26:                                                                                                           
          Delete "secs. 1-14"                                                                                                   
          Insert "sec. 1-16"                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, line 27:                                                                                                           
          Delete "Section 15"                                                                                                   
          Insert "Section 17"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1915                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  announced Amendment 1  is before the committee.   She                                                              
directed  attention to  line 12  and  said that  the repealer  was                                                              
repealed in the House Special Committee  on Military and Veterans'                                                              
Affairs.   She asked if there  was any opposition to  Amendment 1.                                                              
Hearing no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1850                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON  made  a  motion  to  move  CSHB  317(MLV),                                                              
version  1-GH2050\G, as  amended  out of  committee with  attached                                                              
zero  fiscal  note,  individual  recommendations,  and  asked  for                                                              
unanimous consent.  There being no  objection, CSHB 317(STA) moved                                                              
from the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 299-PIONEERS HOME RATES                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1808                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  announced the  next order of  business is  HOUSE BILL                                                              
NO. 299, "An Act relating to rates charged in a Pioneers' Home."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN said  he introduced  HB 299  because of  rate                                                              
increases at  Pioneers' Homes.  He  noted that HB 299  will remove                                                              
rate  setting   power  from  the  administration   and  give  that                                                              
authority  to the legislature.    He explained  he thinks this  is                                                              
necessary  because many  people had  moved into  a Pioneers'  Home                                                              
after having  made a lifetime  decision that entailed  liquidating                                                              
assets  and moving  out  of their  own homes.    These people  had                                                              
expected to live  out their days under a certain  deal agreed upon                                                              
with the Pioneers'  Home, but that deal has  changed dramatically.                                                              
He mentioned  that if rate  setting is transferred  to legislative                                                              
overview, a consistent policy will  emerge because legislators are                                                              
held responsible for their public  policy every two or four years.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN indicated  that Pioneers'  Homes were  set up                                                              
originally to be  homes for Alaskan pioneers, which  is the reason                                                              
for the name.   He acknowledged that a number of  court cases have                                                              
ruled  that  people  must  be  treated   equally,  therefore,  the                                                              
criteria  for   the  original  mission  of  Pioneers'   Homes  has                                                              
dramatically  changed to  the extent  that anyone  can move  in if                                                              
that  person  is  a  resident  of the  state.    He  informed  the                                                              
committee  that  the  court  cases  created  a  great  demand  for                                                              
services [offered by  the Pioneers' Homes], and there  seems to be                                                              
more people  who suffer from different  forms of dementia  who are                                                              
entering the homes.  The focus and  mission of Pioneers' Homes has                                                              
changed from simply  a residential facility into  a long-term care                                                              
facility.  The change is appropriate;  for this reason there needs                                                              
to be discussion  as to whether  the Pioneers' Homes are  going to                                                              
remain residential.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  reminded the committee that  the state should                                                              
honor the  agreement  that was made  with those  people when  they                                                              
moved into Pioneers' Homes.  He has  seen their dignity taken away                                                              
from them, even though many of them  had never been on welfare and                                                              
had provided  for themselves  their whole lives.   As a  result of                                                              
the dramatic  rise in  rates, some  people residing  in the  homes                                                              
have literally  had their dignity  stripped from them.   He stated                                                              
that  the legislature  has passed  legislation assuring  Pioneers'                                                              
Home residents  that they  will not  be put out  on the  street if                                                              
they become indigent, and he agrees with that legislation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN said  that  he had  heard  comments from  the                                                              
Department  of Law regarding  different  rates for Pioneers'  Home                                                              
residents even though  that would not be treating  them equally as                                                              
current law requires.   He suggested perhaps the  committee should                                                              
discuss whether the homes will continue  to operate as residential                                                              
facilities.   He noted  that residents who  agreed upon  a certain                                                              
rate could  be phased  out by attrition  because attrition  may be                                                              
legally  acceptable;  a shift  in  focus could  then  follow.   He                                                              
explained  that   a  good  example  of  attrition   being  legally                                                              
acceptable is the longevity bonus  program; although that also had                                                              
been litigated on an equal protection  basis, because it was going                                                              
to be phased out  it was legal to continue the  program with those                                                              
who already received a bonus.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1502                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  commented that  there is a  $1.2 million  fiscal note                                                              
with HB 299.   She asked if  Representative Ogan would  be willing                                                              
to take that  money out of  the earnings reserve or  the permanent                                                              
fund.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1485                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  answered in the  affirmative, as soon  as the                                                              
legislature  constitutionally   protects  the   existing  dividend                                                              
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ALISON ELGEE,  Deputy Commissioner, Department  of Administration,                                                              
said  that in  1995  the Pioneer  Home  Advisory  Board adopted  a                                                              
policy of raising rates over a defined  period of time to the full                                                              
cost  of  care  in  the  homes.    Those  rate  increases  started                                                              
effective July 1, 1996, and the last  one will be in place in July                                                              
1, 2002; over  a seven-year period, the department  moves from low                                                              
rates  to  those that  represent  the  full  cost  of care.    She                                                              
commented  that the  fiscal  note  for HB  299  includes the  rate                                                              
schedule.   She mentioned that  the administration  had publicized                                                              
rate  schedule  information  so  that  everybody  knew  where  the                                                              
administration was headed.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ELGEE indicated  that the  reason the  Pioneer Home  Advisory                                                              
Board felt  it was  important to  raise rates  is because  in 1995                                                              
legislation  had been  introduced  to privatize  the homes,  which                                                              
were  being  reviewed  primarily  due to  state  budget  problems.                                                              
Also, she  added, the  state was  heavily subsidizing  a very  few                                                              
people  in a  long-term care  environment.   In  addition, as  the                                                              
administration watched  the senior population grow,  it recognized                                                              
that the state was never going to  be able to meet the majority of                                                              
the  senior population's  needs  through  the services  that  were                                                              
offered in a Pioneers' Home.  She  informed the committee that the                                                              
Alaska State  Hospital  & Nursing Home  Association (ASHNHA)  felt                                                              
that  there  was  a  great  unfair  competitive  advantage.    She                                                              
emphasized that  ASHNHA felt  that those people  who had  the good                                                              
fortune  to get into  a pioneer  home at  highly subsidized  rates                                                              
were  drawing from  those  folks who  could  benefit from  skilled                                                              
nursing  care and  would otherwise  be  taken care  of in  another                                                              
long-term care facility.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE said that at the same time  the rate policy was adopted,                                                              
legislation was  put in place  that protected financial  assets of                                                              
[pioneer   home]   residents,   thus  removing   the   danger   of                                                              
impoverishing  a spouse  by pioneer home  rates, retained  certain                                                              
monthly allowances,  exempted the permanent fund  from collection,                                                              
placed  a  prohibition   on  reviewing  financial   resources  for                                                              
admission, and precluded putting  a person on the street if unable                                                              
to pay the rate.   The department does not ask  people about their                                                              
financial resources until people  get to the point where they feel                                                              
they  cannot  continue  to  pay  the  rate.    At  that  time  the                                                              
department   performs  an  assessment   of  financial   resources,                                                              
determines  an  appropriate  rate,   and  subsidizes  the  balance                                                              
through the state.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE reminded  the committee that HB 299 rolls  rates back to                                                              
the rates in effect  July 1, 1999, but HB 299  does represent $1.2                                                              
million   revenue   loss   from   the   administration's   current                                                              
environment.   The  administration anticipates  that revenue  loss                                                              
would be increasing as rates increase  until the pioneer home rate                                                              
reaches   full  cost   of   care.     She   recognized  that   the                                                              
administration is dependent upon  the receipt of those revenues in                                                              
its operating  budget so  the fiscal note  shows the  trade-off of                                                              
the  revenue  collected  from the  Pioneers'  Homes  with  general                                                              
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1201                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES  asked if  the  cost of  maintaining  a  person in  a                                                              
Pioneers' Home is $10,000 per month.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE replied that the cost varies,  depending on the level of                                                              
care, and  the rates are  listed on the  attachment to  the fiscal                                                              
note   to HB 299.   She said that the  rates listed at  the bottom                                                              
labeled July 2002 represent the full cost of care.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES asked where someone came up with $10,000.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ELGEE explained  there  is some  confusion  between what  the                                                              
Pioneers'  Home   charges  and  costs  in  other   long-term  care                                                              
environments.  She  noted that there are nursing  homes throughout                                                              
the state that charge a variety of  rates, and some are as high as                                                              
$10,000 a month.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JAMES  asked if  the  [fiscal  note] included  any  capital                                                              
expenditures.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1077                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE  answered in the  negative.   She commented that  if the                                                              
administration  were  to  add  a  depreciation  component  to  the                                                              
facility rates,  they would  definitely be  higher than  the rates                                                              
listed  on  the fiscal  note.   She  mentioned  that  depreciation                                                              
itself is not  going to take $6500  and drive it to $10,000.   The                                                              
$10,000 figure is a generalization  based on averages found in the                                                              
Alaska long-term care market.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES said  she understood that Ms. Elgee  was talking about                                                              
other nursing  homes around  the state.   She  asked if  the state                                                              
subsidizes other  nursing homes in  any way, and whether  they are                                                              
Medicaid-paid or totally private.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE  replied that nursing  homes are private  for-profit and                                                              
nonprofit  organizations.    She  noted  that  residential  makeup                                                              
within  a  nursing  home  is running  about  82  percent  Medicaid                                                              
clients.     Therefore,  she  added,   to  the  degree   that  the                                                              
administration participates in the  Medicaid program for long-term                                                              
care, the  administration gets a  state match for  federal dollars                                                              
that  are  going  to  the  nursing  homes.    She  explained  that                                                              
financial  protection put  in place for  Pioneers' Home  residents                                                              
was modeled after financial protections  that are in place for the                                                              
Medicaid  program.  People  looking for  state assistance  through                                                              
Medicaid or through Pioneers' Homes are treated comparably.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0962                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  asked if there  is a waiting  list for people  to get                                                              
into the Pioneers' Homes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE answered  that the administration continues  to maintain                                                              
waiting lists, and it depends on  location and level of care.  She                                                              
mentioned that  Pioneers' Homes have  vacant beds  for residential                                                              
level care  identified on the  rate list as coordinated  services,                                                              
but people  are not  interested in  that level  of care.   Without                                                              
additional  staffing the  department is  unable to upgrade  vacant                                                              
beds  to a higher  level of  care.   She indicated  that the  most                                                              
prevalent  need  on the  waiting  list  is for  enhanced  assisted                                                              
living  or for  special  Alzheimer  disease and  related  dementia                                                              
(ADRD) services.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  mentioned  that she  has been a  strong advocate  for                                                              
eight years of  privatizing the homes but has not  yet figured out                                                              
how to make it work.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0868                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON asked if  the state  still has a  provision                                                              
that allows  people who  cannot afford  the cost  of being  in the                                                              
home  to  remain in  the  home  while  the  state covers  all  the                                                              
expenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE answered in the affirmative.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked how many  Pioneers' Home residents fit                                                              
into the category of those who cannot afford to pay.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE replied  that there are 220 people on  state assistance,                                                              
and that  number can vary based  on the population.   She observed                                                              
that does  not mean  people are  not paying  anything; people  pay                                                              
what they can afford  to pay.  For example, if  the monthly charge                                                              
is $2000  and the  person can  pay $1500,  the person pays  $1500.                                                              
The state picks up the difference.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON asked where  the subsidy  is listed  in the                                                              
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0778                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE answered that a portion  of the Pioneers' Home budget is                                                              
general funds, and  a portion is Pioneers' Home  revenue, so state                                                              
assistance is listed in general funds.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON asked how  many people  pay the  balance of                                                              
Pioneers' Home revenue.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE replied about 350 people.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HUDSON stated  that  HB 299  rolls back  Pioneers'                                                              
Home rates to 1998 rates.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  said she thought that  the legislature had  fixed the                                                              
problem  by  previous   legislation.    She  commented   that  she                                                              
sympathizes with  and personally knows  many of the folks  who are                                                              
going   through   this   problem,  and   she   understands   their                                                              
frustration.  She noted that many  seniors in the state are having                                                              
a hard time figuring  how to stay in their homes,  and at the same                                                              
time there  are not enough  assisted-living homes.   She mentioned                                                              
that  assisted-living  homes  are less  expensive  than  Pioneers'                                                              
Homes,  and if  more people  could be  moved into  assisted-living                                                              
homes, the state  would probably save a lot of  money.  Currently,                                                              
she added,  $34.50 per  day is  paid for  "general relief  medical                                                              
folks," but there  is legislation before the legislature  to raise                                                              
that to $75 per day.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0570                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON  asked the prime  sponsor how HB  299 allows                                                              
for  raising Pioneers' Home rates.   He said he assumes that under                                                              
HB 299 the  homes cannot raise  rates by regulation but  must come                                                              
to the legislature and propose raising rates.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN replied  in  the affirmative.    He said  the                                                              
fiscal note assumes  that HB 299 will take effect.   He added that                                                              
he had introduced  HB 299 as a point of discussion  and is willing                                                              
to modify the  bill.  He noted  that the department might  want to                                                              
make  a policy  call to  stop providing  coordinated services  and                                                              
basic  assisted  living  and  to   shift  the  focus  to  enhanced                                                              
[assisted  living] and  Alzheimer[-related services].   He  stated                                                              
that  he  believed that  people  suffering  Alzheimer's  [disease]                                                              
should pay for services if they can  pay, but the discussion needs                                                              
to  be started  about what  is going  to  happen; this  is why  he                                                              
introduced HB 299.  He is willing  to sit down with the department                                                              
and hold  a discussion to  see if something  can be worked  out to                                                              
protect people  who have  already moved in  and do not  have other                                                              
options.  Some  people simply do not have other  options, the deal                                                              
in the pioneer home  changed on them, and he does  not think it is                                                              
fair.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0361                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  reminded Representative  Ogan  that those people  are                                                              
guaranteed by law that they cannot  be removed for lack of ability                                                              
to pay, and  she does understand  that they like to pay  their own                                                              
way.   Whether they  run out  of money  or not,  they are  allowed                                                              
money for personal use, and they  are guaranteed permanence in the                                                              
pioneer home,  so she believes they  are protected by  language in                                                              
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  observed that the law does  not protect their                                                              
dignity.   He  noted these  people have  been self-sufficient  all                                                              
their lives,  have never been dependent  on anyone, and  had moved                                                              
into a situation  that is no longer what they thought  it would be                                                              
because the deal has changed.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0254                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES commented that Representative  Ogan would have to find                                                              
those people specifically  and "grandfather" them  into the system                                                              
because she does not think it can  be done by blanket legislation.                                                              
She acknowledged  that she thinks  people could be  "grandfathered                                                              
in" but is not sure if the rate could  be rolled back to when they                                                              
first moved into the home.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  indicated he would like to  have a discussion                                                              
with the department about "grandfathering  in" those people while,                                                              
at the  same time, ensuring  that people  who move to  a Pioneers'                                                              
Home in the  future understand that  rates are going to  rise.  He                                                              
again questioned  the fairness regarding  those who moved  in with                                                              
one  understanding, only  to  have the  deal  change, although  he                                                              
agreed that  rates need  to rise appropriately  so that  the homes                                                              
pay  for  themselves.     Perhaps,  he  added,   people  could  be                                                              
"grandfathered   in"  to   the  two  lower   levels  of   services                                                              
[coordinated  services   and  basic  assisted  living]   with  the                                                              
understanding  that the  Pioneers' Homes  are getting  out of  the                                                              
business of providing those particular services.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0113                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES noted  that people who moved to Pioneers'  Homes after                                                              
the law was changed already know  what the deal is.  She commented                                                              
that it is  great to provide  services but the legislature  has to                                                              
figure  how to  pay for  them.   She explained  that the  contract                                                              
people  sign  when  they  move into  a  Pioneers'  Home  does  not                                                              
preclude rate hikes,  so this issue should have  been addressed in                                                              
past legislation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-20, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0009                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE verified  that Pioneers' Home contracts  do not preclude                                                              
rate hikes.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he has  talked with people living in the                                                              
Anchorage Pioneer  Home and the complaint  they have is  that when                                                              
they  moved into  the home  it was  a  pioneer home.   Then,  over                                                              
several years,  the focus  has changed to  a dementia home  to the                                                              
extent that 85  percent of the people living there  do suffer some                                                              
form of dementia,  which is obviously  going to run costs  up.  He                                                              
noted that  the residential people  feel that their cost  has gone                                                              
up in support of dementia patients  and people who cannot pay.  He                                                              
asked  Ms. Elgee  whether,  if the  homes  did  not have  dementia                                                              
inhabitants,  the coordinated services  and the original  intended                                                              
use of the homes would be anywhere  near as costly as is listed on                                                              
the rate sheet.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0194                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE  replied that costs would  be the same because  what the                                                              
department  has  done,  in  terms of  allocating  costs  to  these                                                              
various  levels  of  care,  is  to   review  base  costs  such  as                                                              
housekeeping and  food service, and to adjust  rates appropriately                                                              
to  correspond to  the kind  of staffing  needed  at various  care                                                              
levels.  Therefore,  when reviewing the lowest  level, coordinated                                                              
services, no direct-care staff is represented in that rate.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said he is concerned that there  might be an                                                              
additional need  for a dietitian  or someone specifically  trained                                                              
that would be calculated  in to the base cost, which  might not be                                                              
necessary if it were not for the  presence of dementia patients in                                                              
the Pioneers' Homes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0321                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE answered that the need  for dietitians and services like                                                              
that just  come with the care  and feeding of hundreds  of people;                                                              
it  has nothing  to do  with dementia.   She  noted that  physical                                                              
therapy services are not represented  in coordinated service rates                                                              
since pioneer residents are Medicare-eligible  and Medicare covers                                                              
the cost of physical  therapy when it is brought  into the home to                                                              
meet  individual  needs.    She  explained  that  medications  are                                                              
separate  costs from the  Pioneers' Home  rate; therefore,  things                                                              
specific to physical and/or mental  needs of an individual are not                                                              
represented in the rates beyond the staffing requirements.                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if he  understood correctly that in six                                                              
years  the   Department   of  Administration   has  gone   from  a                                                              
significant  supplemented cost  of $900  to $2135.   He  commented                                                              
that  Ms. Elgee  is saying  that back  when [the  cost] was  $900,                                                              
those costs should  have been about $1600 because  there is no way                                                              
that [the cost] could jump that high  in the last six years unless                                                              
the department was  trying to pick up a supplemental  payment.  He                                                              
asked if that was the reason [the costs] had gone up so high.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0451                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE  replied that  the rates  were calculated  based  on the                                                              
operating budget  in fiscal year (FY)  1997.  The rate   effective                                                              
in July of 1996 was a FY '97 cost.   She noted that the department                                                              
had reviewed  what its operating  budget (various levels  of care)                                                              
was  that year  and  divided  it out  until  reaching  2002.   She                                                              
explained that in  the intervening years the operating  budget had                                                              
increased $1.5 million  but the department has  not adjusted these                                                              
rates; they  are still the  same rates  that were projected.   The                                                              
department  has  observed a  shift  in  makeup of  Pioneers'  Home                                                              
clientele in  that there are more  people at the higher  levels of                                                              
care.   She mentioned that they  are picking up  that differential                                                              
in terms  of what the  department proposed  as an increase  to the                                                              
operating budget.   She  indicated that  the $2135 represented  in                                                              
July of  2002 for coordinated  services is  what it actually  cost                                                              
the department in July 1996.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  noted that in  1996 it was  actually costing                                                              
the department $2135.   Therefore, he stated,  he understands that                                                              
Ms. Elgee is saying the department is paying a $1200 supplement.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE answered in the affirmative.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN remarked  that the  state was  supplementing                                                              
all of these costs in the range of $1000 per person.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0615                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE replied that in some cases  the supplement was much more                                                              
than that when reviewing the higher levels of care.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said that he had understood  that the higher                                                              
levels of care are taken care of by the differential.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE  answered that  Representative Green  was correct.   She                                                              
said  that  if the  committee  reviewed  what the  department  was                                                              
charging in  1996 for the  highest level  of care versus  the full                                                              
cost of the highest  level care, the supplement is  much more than                                                              
a couple of thousand dollars.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN agreed  and  noted that  the supplement  was                                                              
about  $5000.   He commented  that  the difference  [in rate]  has                                                              
doubled for  comprehensive services in  1996 and tripled  in 1999.                                                              
He  asked if  all  of  the difference  between  then  and 2002  is                                                              
supplemented by the state.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE replied in the affirmative.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0679                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES asked Ms. Elgee if it  was correct that the department                                                              
had to  be authorized  to bump  up [the  rate] for Pioneers'  Home                                                              
residents.  She explained that the  plan had been to get residents                                                              
paying up to  full cost within seven  years.  She noted  that even                                                              
then  residents   were  not  paying   anywhere  near   full  cost;                                                              
therefore,  the  state had  been  supplementing  the cost  of  the                                                              
homes.    She  indicated  that  the  decision  had  been  to  move                                                              
residents up to  full cost.  She emphasized that  the year 2000 is                                                              
here and asked  if the department is still "bumping  up" to arrive                                                              
at  the full  cost.   She acknowledged  that rates  listed on  the                                                              
Pioneers' Homes rate  history sheet are the charges  for services,                                                              
not full cost.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ELGEE  answered that  the  numbers  represented on  the  line                                                              
labeled July 2002 are what the department  is experiencing as full                                                              
cost of care today.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES  reiterated that the  department is still a  couple of                                                              
years behind reaching full-cost level.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0783                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  commented that if the legislature  abides by                                                              
these  estimates, the  2002 estimated  costs will  be even  higher                                                              
just because of inflation.  He said  he is concerned about a large                                                              
shift toward  additional care.   He asked whether  Pioneers' Homes                                                              
should  be renamed  because  he  agrees with  Representative  Ogan                                                              
regarding  those people  who  are not  suffering  [dementia].   He                                                              
agreed that  the people  had anticipated one  thing, but  that one                                                              
thing has significantly changed.   He asked if there should now be                                                              
something that  recognizes a  dementia problem  in the state.   He                                                              
emphasized that  the legislature and the department  should accept                                                              
the problem and  not hide behind the name of Pioneers'  Homes.  He                                                              
noted that for him,  a pioneers' home is for people  who have been                                                              
in  the state  for 25  years, for  example, and  are still  fairly                                                              
healthy.   But  because  the legislature  and  the department  are                                                              
changing the  scope of what  is going  on in the Pioneers'  Homes,                                                              
maybe a name change is appropriate.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0881                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ELGEE  replied that  about three  years ago  the Pioneer  Home                                                              
Advisory Board  had heard this  recommendation that  perhaps there                                                              
should be  a name change for  all the reasons  that Representative                                                              
Green has  cited.  She said  that the Pioneer Home  Advisory Board                                                              
had forwarded  that recommendation  to Governor  Knowles,  and the                                                              
reaction  was that  people  wrote from  throughout  the state  who                                                              
thought  that   a  name  change   was  a  very,  very   bad  idea.                                                              
Subsequently, the board withdrew its recommendation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MAREL  HAKALA testified  via teleconference  from  Fairbanks.   He                                                              
said that  HB 299 is  the first time  in his memory  that anything                                                              
has been  done to  ease the  hardships of  residents of  Pioneers'                                                              
Homes since  this administration  came into  power.  He  commented                                                              
that he, along with  many others, supports HB 299  because it is a                                                              
move in  the right direction.   He explained  that he does  have a                                                              
problem with  a two-tier system  and does not  approve of it.   He                                                              
mentioned that anybody  who enters the homes now  or in the future                                                              
should be  covered by  the state  law.  He  indicated that  HB 299                                                              
should be amended  to read that all admittance, in  the past, now,                                                              
and in  the future  should be  treated equally.   He informed  the                                                              
committee that  in making the  homes into health  care facilities,                                                              
they  will become  full  health care  facilities  with no  initial                                                              
residents.   He emphasized  that he  would like  to see  the homes                                                              
return to  their original concept,  where there was only  one door                                                              
to enter.  He remarked that the one  door was entry as a resident,                                                              
and as the resident  failed in health, the resident  received care                                                              
but it is not that way today.  Now  there are three doors by which                                                              
to enter,  and a  big door is  the Alzheimer  dementia group.   He                                                              
stated that he  felt that all money income from  the mental health                                                              
trust fund should go to the Pioneers'  Homes to take care of these                                                              
people,  and he is  sure then  the rates  for remaining  residents                                                              
would be reduced accordingly.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1152                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
IRENE PAYTON said  that, as one of the people  fortunate enough to                                                              
be  receiving  dividends and  the  longevity  bonus, she  is  very                                                              
grateful for  what the State of  Alaska provides.  She  noted that                                                              
the whole concept of raising rates  came about because Alaska does                                                              
not have the  same amount of money  that it had when  it built the                                                              
Pioneers' Homes.   She explained that  it seems to her  that those                                                              
who  are receiving  benefits are  going to  have to  start to  pay                                                              
their  way a  little bit  since there  is talk  about cutting  the                                                              
budget.  She commented  she is not sure why HB  299 is even needed                                                              
since the state is paying for those people who cannot pay.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1245                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES announced that she would close the meeting and the                                                                  
committee would discuss HB 299 at a later time.  [HB 299 was held                                                               
over.]                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
State Affairs Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 10:12                                                                 
a.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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